Nell: I think especially as Americans, it’s like we have this like big fancy idea about philanthropy or you know, giving back and it’s like, well, what if you just did you in a really loving, purposeful way.
Nancy: Welcome to the Nancy Levin Show. I’m Nancy Levin, Founder of Levin Life Coach Academy, best-selling author, master coach, and your host. I help overachieving people pleasers set boundaries that stick and own self-worth, anchored in empowered action, so you can feel free. Plus, if you’re an aspiring or current coach, you are in the right place. Join me each week for coaching and compelling conversations designed to support you in the spotlight, as you take center stage of your own life. Let’s dive in.
Nancy: Welcome back to another episode of the Nancy Levin Show. And I am really excited to be here with my new dear friend.
Nell: Indeed.
Nancy: Yes. I mean, I felt like right when we met it was instantaneous.
Here is Nell Derick Debevoise and she is the founder and CEO of 3D Performance Group. And 3D Performance Group provides coaching, facilitation and immersive retreats. Nell herself is a facilitator, coach, advisor, writer, speaker, and she’s really passionate about helping high performing leaders increase their impact in the me, we and world dimensions, which we will certainly talk about. I will just share with you that Nell has serious chops. She is highly educated at all the places you’ve heard of, including Harvard, Columbia, London Business Schools, Cambridge to name a few. And one of the other super cool things that Nell is into is leading equine assisted learning programs. And she’s also a GC Index Partner and we’ll talk about the GC Index as well.
Nell’s first book, Going First: Find the Courage to Lead Purposefully and Inspire Action was an international bestseller and this past October she published The Essential Companion Going First: The Purpose Party Playbook, making her work accessible to all in a DIY format.
Alright, so I first met Nell a few months ago. We were both about to attend an event and she reached out to those of us she knew we’re going to be attending, we didn’t know each other, and she said, Hey, if anyone wants to sort of meet beforehand, let’s have a phone call. And we did and it was super wonderful. And then, you know, a week later we were together in person and it was even more wonderful and it continues to be.
So welcome now.
Nell: Thank you so much Nancy. I’m gonna start every morning like this with you just singing those praises, so kindly. Thank you.
Nancy: Yeah, so, you know, I shared a bit about where you are now and what you’re up to and what you’re doing and I always love to know the origin story and the sort of roadmap, linear or non-linear that got you here. So yeah, share
Nell:. Well thank you for the invitation and for your work and this community that you have nurtured. You know, the origin story I shared in that first conversation when we spoke, but really is profound for me, that at 12 years old I had this fork in the road experience of, you know, having been at this very nurturing, rich, not economically, but culturally and academically and extracurricularly elementary school. So kind of everything that I think as an American I love to think of as the American public education system. And so I had been nourished there from six to 12 in Hartford, Connecticut. And the school that I would have gone to in that public school district from seventh grade was really the antithesis of that.
So, you know, folks who watched The Wire, I think that’s a pretty good illustration, but in real life of gangs and teenage pregnancy, like at 13 and 14, and violence and you know, to say nothing of not stellar academics, direct extracurriculars. And so my mom, you know, sort of said as, as a self-employed massage therapist, right? So it wasn’t that there was tremendous economic privilege, but enough kind of social capital to understand that there were other options, namely private school, whether that would’ve been scholarshiped or something else, or moving into a different public school district.
And so in my 12-year-old economics and reality, I went to a few private schools and felt weird in uniform. And I was like, that’s expensive, buy a house, you know, in retrospect. But anyway, she and my stepfather, again, self-employed massage therapists, both of them at the time did. And we moved 450 yards over a town line. And I went to this very richly endowed, again, not just economically, I mean it was a wealthier suburb, but also just all the same things of different but still racial diversity as well as extracurriculars as well as, you know, all of these other programs and academics that kind of launched me onto Harvard and all those hallowed halls of learning. You know, for better or worse, that’ll be a separate call to pick that apart.
And so there you go. At 12 my origin stories, I went to school six to 12 with these humans who were amazing in their various ways. And then, you know, they went on to a system that wasn’t nurturing them where they were kind of succeeding in spite of rather than thanks to that school. Whereas I moved 400 yards and had, you know, all the launchpad that I could have asked for.
So that really is it. I I won’t, you know, we can talk more about the ins and outs since then in the last 30 years, but it really was that notion of, of seeing that human potential is massive and beautiful and shiny and can change the world, heal the world, but only if we provide some support and resource
Nancy: And the impact of realizing this at such a young age Yeah. That it would inform your choices moving forward.
Nell: Yeah, totally. I mean to, yes, and you know, to your illusion that paths are not always straight that, you know, so, you know, obviously I had school for six more years and then I had college, which was fine. But then two things happened. You know, I studied abroad in Paris and loved that and was like, I wanna be abroad. And so public education doesn’t really make sense as a career path if you’re an living internationally, number one. And so I was very happy to change that plan, you know, to be abroad and have that experience.
And then also at the time, you know, late nineties mindset as an 18-year-old nonprofit was where I would go if I would have an impact, which goodness knows, my first lesson in my book and everything else I do now is like, you don’t have to be a nonprofit to have impact.
Nancy: That’s right.
Nell: So I learned that through my own decade of being a nonprofit and, you know, not that I, certainly don’t regret that time. It was amazing and educational and foundational and and informative for me. And you know, just because I had that clarity at 12 did not mean that every step since then has been impeccably planned or intent intentional maybe. Yes. But not in a linear way.
Nancy: Of course. And you mentioned living in Paris and I know you’ve lived and spent good chunks of time in other parts of the world as well.
Nell: Yeah, yeah. So my whole first decade after college was international. And so first I moved to Tokyo just ’cause I thought, you know, again, 21-year-old mindset, I’ve done Europe check, right? Such an arrogant American youth thing. And so I’ll go to Tokyo, I wanna do Asia next, and Tokyo is so westernized, that’ll be easy, right? So I wake up jet lagged and nauseous, you know,
on my first day. So disoriented, not being able to read, but had an amazing year just teaching English professionally. It was not very rewarding or fulfilling, but it was an amazing place to be and learned a lot about myself and culture.
And then back to Europe and, and spent a year in France teaching and then lived in Rome for a bunch of years, managing this beautiful global network of youth activists and really helping to build their capacity for change and their collaboration and partnership. And then thanks to some connections through that work, actually moved to the West Bank and was in Palestine and, and the broader Middle East to some extent for four years full-time and, and a few years after that. So yeah, yeah so all kinds of hotspots and then a quick stint in Mozambique working on some cool stuff and kind of deciding would I stay there and make that my next home. And ultimately chose to come to New York, which was kind of my, you know, frontier market, I called at the time ’cause I had never worked as an adult in the United States. And so yeah, moved back in 2010, 11 and have been here in the New York area since.
Nancy: So there were elements of what I shared when I was introducing you that I’d love to hear you expound upon. So if we look at first this concept of ME, WE, WORLD, I’m so fascinated and it resonates and I’d love to hear the way that you talk about it.
Nell: Yeah. So, you know, the lesson of that decade meant well many lessons. One of the primary lessons in the headline from that decade of nonprofit work is that the nonprofit sector does incredible things to change and heal the world, thank goodness, and that’s really worthy. And it is not enough to heal the depth of wound that we are all living right now. You know, that needs to be an all hands on deck endeavor.
So good news, there are opportunities for every single human out there to contribute their one 9 billionth, as I say, piece of healing the world, right? And so if you are a restaurant owner or a coach or a marketing manager or a kindergarten teacher, or a stay at home parent or an elder care, I mean, literally anything you are, there is a need, a desire, an opening for you to contribute your unique piece to healing the world somehow. And so that’s what my work is all about. And so, you know, we, in the book I talk about the inputs to that, just a really kind of analytical type A way of looking at what you do on a day-to-day basis, holistic through through your life and work with the reward, the output being this three dimensional performance, right? And so it’s not about earning a ticket to heaven or being a nice girl or you know, making someone proud or whatever. It’s about performance and improving your wellbeing in the ME dimension, right? There’s massive research about how having a sense of purpose why we do what we do every day, literally reduces the risk of heart disease.
Nancy: Wow.
Nell: I mean, it’s so foundational, it’s so fundamental to say nothing of mental health, right? It reduces anxiety and depression. And so that’s the kind of me dimension of this reward from really connecting to purpose.
In the WE dimension. I talk about teams, of course many of us are professionals and spend,
you know, the plurality of our waking hours in some kind of work, whether that’s formally paid or W2 or 1090, you know, whatever that looks like, we are contributing to some organization and by having a sense of why we’re doing that, we are better, we’re more creative, we’re more trustworthy, we’re more trusting, we’re less political and kind of wound up in stuff. So it’s good for us and our teams. Again, tons of research there.
My favorite tidbit is from Harvard, the hallowed halls, but the study shows that the return on assets, so like a very foundational economic, you know, financial metric for companies, your return on assets is higher if there is a universal understanding of the company’s purpose through your organization. So not that the CEO knows what the purpose is or that the purpose is painted on the cafeteria wall, that is not what moves the needle. It’s that throughout the entire organization, from your factory workers to your account managers, to your customers, you know, all the humans in that organization understand and feel their connection to the purpose.
So that’s the WE piece.
And then the world piece is just that, you know, it’s, it’s not all 9 billion other humans out there, but it’s your world. You know, who are those people that you don’t know by first name, but who you have a ripple effect on? And here, you know, I just don’t believe that other than maybe 1% of the population who are sociopaths or psychopaths, the vast majority of us do not want to burn more carbon than we need to or to be misogynistic and hold people back because of their gender or sexuality or race or religion or geography. You know, I really think humans are fundamentally good and want to leave the world a better place, whether that’s for our grandchildren current or imagined or for our dogs or, you know, whoever else it is that we’re making proud. We want to do that. And so when we’re connected to our true selves and, and this unique purpose, it is, it is inevitably good for the world in one way or another.
Nancy: Hi, it’s Nancy interrupting my own show. I’ve got a lot of exciting things coming up in 2024, including a brand new book plus a group coaching opportunity, unlike anything else I have ever offered before. To make sure you are in the know, hop on over to my website now and sign up for my free weekly newsletter at nancylevin.com/newsletter so you don’t miss a thing. Okay. Back to the show.
Nancy: One of the things I really appreciate is the trajectory from ME to WE to WORLD that it has to begin with ourselves before we can, you know, selflessly serve the world. And I know in my work, I’m always standing on my soapbox to reclaim selfish, to actually be able to take stock of what our needs are, of what our gifts are, how we can synthesize all of this first, because we can’t, you know, all the al all the analogies and all the metaphors, we can’t give from an empty well, we can’t, you know, we have to put our oxygen mask on first, you know, you name it all of it.
Nell: Yeah.
Nancy: But How quickly those of us who really wanna help other people bypass helping ourselves.
Nell: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, sub esson 37.F or whatever of my tenure of the nonprofit space is this, right? Is that that kind of honestly martyr type approach to the helping professions is BS you know, doctors do not let your residents stay on 18 hours. I want no surgeon anywhere near me who has not slept.
Nancy: Right.
Nell: You know, I was doing very kind of frontline mental health work with refugee families and kids and like when our interns would come and just crank for two or three weeks ’cause they were so excited about, you know, doing the work that they had been reading about on campus for semesters and, and would get fried, you know? And I was like, you gotta, you gotta go have a beer or, you know, do whatever you’re gonna do. Get on the treadmill. You know, our founder bought us a treadmill really early on, and I write about this in the book. Like, I had never really been an athlete. That wasn’t my thing. Or a worker outer I’d lived in Europe. So they don’t really work out. You know, you just walk. And my colleague was really like, I need to move. I need something up in this place. ’cause we couldn’t just go for a run in the neighborhood, you know, that was not okay and that was Palestine. And so he was like, yeah, yeah, good idea.
You know, order a treadmill, we’re this tiny nonprofit on a tiny budget and money goes really far to help our kids. And I was kind of like, eye roll, you know, chick from Montana, ho needs to run on the treadmill? Let me tell you, Nancy, I mean, I don’t know how many miles I clocked in those four years, but it was more than I ever have since, you know, because it was just so important to have that outlet.
Nancy: Absolutely.
Nell: So I think that’s absolutely foundational and I, you know, no mistake about it. I’ll add that it’s not one directional, it really is a cycle, right? And so I talk about the me we world, I have, you know, a graphic and the book that really talks about those bi-directional connections between them because the mandate is to kind of recognize your position, privilege, needs, interests, skills, and then direct that somehow. And so for those of us who do oversee people or who set culture at an organization or who train coaches or, you know, whatever those positions of authority and influence are, we need to be part of the WE that is feeding back to the ME saying we are shut down for two weeks. I don’t wanna hear from you on December 27th. Like, it can probably wait. None of us are heart surgeons who also should be sleeping. But like, you know, nobody is gonna die if we stop training coaches for two weeks. In fact, our coach training is gonna be a heck of a lot better, you know, our management meetings, our strategy planning based on two weeks of open space of strolling in Paris, of sitting on the couch with a book of cuddling our dogs. You know? And so it is on those of us who have those positions of authority of making policy or setting example, to allow and and demand that kind of ME level work.
Nancy: Yeah. I mean, and to the point of your book, you know, Going First and that it, you know, that in the subtitle, you know, Find the Courage to Lead Purposefully and Inspire Action. But this really is speaking about those of us who are going out into the world first, taking risks, supporting and encouraging others.
Nell: Yeah.
Nancy: Courageously willing to stake our, you know, to stake our claim. And, and to be willing, I, you know, the way I look at it for me is, you know, and be willing to be transparent about what it takes and to, for the inspiring action piece, to really authentically support others in either discovering or developing what is their purpose.
Nell: Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, I think exactly that, andone of my missions is kind of around demystifying purpose or depressurizing purpose, you know, because I think sometimes people hear that and they’re like, I don’t have a “Capital P Purpose”. You know, and that’s where the kind of framework in the book of the spheres of impact is really trying to look broadly at like,
is it family and friends? Is it community? Is it money? Yes. Maybe it’s work, maybe it’s self, right. But really fleshing out that entire dashboard that we each have in our lives, regardless of our formal title, regardless of our net worth or how much money is in the bank, you know, but just going first could be, you know, sitting around the dining table with your adolescent kids and being like, who had a feeling today? And just opening that conversation about feelings with adolescent boys or girls or, you know, people who are, are not sure about the safety of sharing feelings with their family. So just really blowing that open of like, it does not have to be about curing cancer or saving the Amazon. In fact, if you’re not trained as a doctor, please don’t try to cure cancer because it’s a waste of all of our time. There are really smart people doing that. And so if you are stay at home parenting right now, awesome. Massive impact to be had in raising, curious, empathetic, open-minded risk-taking humans, you know? So I, I just like to, yeah, I think especially as Americans, it’s like we have this like big fancy idea about philanthropy or, you know, giving back. And it’s like, well, what if you just didn’t take too much in the first place and just did you, in a really loving, purposeful way.
Nancy: Yeah. You mentioned Spheres of Impact, and so I would love you to share a little bit about that in the GC Index which I was really fortunate to experience with you.
Nell: Yes, I know. It’s so fun. It’s such a cool tool.
So I am a nerd really proudly and self-diagnosed lifelong learner with some student loans still trickling off thanks to all those degrees you mentioned. But I just, I love learning and I’m nerdy about it, and I, you know, have this kind of very proudly spiritual and natural and instinctive side, but also am a real analyzer and really love a good spreadsheet.
And so the framework that has emerged for me over, you know, the 10 years before I wrote the book of work with these purpose seekers, you know, as we talked about our kind of shared audience of those people who really consciously wanna leave the world a better place, but maybe, you know, don’t know what that looks like. Is just a very intentionally simple and universal framework of these six spheres of impact.
So through our work in life, I have yet to meet a human who does not have these, you know, self is intentionally in the middle, in the center foundationally of what do we input into our self wellbeing and performance, which then ripples out in those three dimensions. So self is at the center, family and friends around that kind of, you know, again, that below the fold that we don’t often give enough credit to societally or individually. And so that can be, you know, that is, as we say, invisible work, right? Which there’s a great tool that I cite in the book of an online work, invisible work calculator, right? To actually think about like, if you are in blank role, spending blank hours doing whatever, caregiving for elders or youngers or whomever, what is the value economically of that to our GDP in a very real way.
So below the fold, self and friends and family, and then above the fold there, these are the things we think about more. What is your job, right? What are you paid or somehow compensated to do separately from that? What about your workplace, right? Because we might be a tax accountant, but at our place of work, we can be involved in recruiting folks of different backgrounds or we can be involved in our green team to make the office more sustainable, right? And that’s not our job, per se, but it’s definitely a lever for impact. So job and workplace are separate and both important, community around that is kind of those non-work, non-family engagements, formal or informal.
And finally, money, money, money. Not because it’s the most important, but because you can donate in small amounts or large, either can have huge impact. What you invest in, and again, small or large, there are IRAs and, and very kind of retail investment products now that can align with values. And then what you buy, right? I am very confident that no one on this podcast has not bought something probably today and certainly in the last, you know, 48 hours. So who did you buy that from? Did you need to buy that in the first place? Could you have avoided creating more stuff? You know, were you able to buy locally or from a minority or woman owned business? All of those things are ways to align money with our desired impact as well. S
o that’s it. It’s very simple. There are six spheres of impact. It is a fabulous, fun, deep rabbit hole to really use that framework as a coach or as an individual or as a team leader, to really just have that shared language around the full set of inputs that we can be thinking about to avoid that pressure of like, I want my job to mean everything. And like, I wanna be changing the world, you know, love you millennials, but sometimes we hear that from Gen Z millennial folks, and it’s just like, that’s not realistic. You know, you have to be more holistic and look at all six spheres.
Nancy: Yeah. And so those are the six spheres that get explored. And when, when we did the GC index, which is the game changing index, right?
Nell: Yep. Yep. Exactly.
Nancy: The game changing index. And it starts, you know, I got to see where my strengths were, where I could use some support, or where, you know, there are the notions of, you know, higher into your weakness.
Nell: Yep. Yep.
Nancy: But to really learn, you know, here is, here is my special sauce, here’s my zone, here’s where I am best, and how do I then populate the other areas of my life and how do I grow also?
Nell: Yeah, totally. No, thank you. I, I got, I got so into the spheres. So the sphere is kind of like where you’re playing, right? Like is it at home? Is it at work? Where is that happening?
And then the, the GC index I am obsessed with as a tool because it looks and feels like a lot of psychometrics that many of us have done for many years, which can be really valuable and illuminating for sure. But they really talk about us and our personality, as individuals.
The GC index has been developed as an organa metric. So really to measure our energy, our natural energy in teams. And so the strengths that we have, not in terms of skill, but just this kind of natural energy. And so for me as this kind of, you know, striving lifelong learner and optimizer, we all only have so many hours, right? So I can’t win by using more hours than you do. Like that’s a non-starter. But if I can use my energy better than two hours of work can be as effective as 10 or 20 or four, you know, depending on exactly what it’s you’re doing. And so that’s what the GC index really helps to indicate is what part, so kind of how are you contributing in those places of the different spheres? How are you showing up? Is it with a new brand new idea that’s crazy, but really powerful. Is it about kind of a more grounded path to that new future? Is it about really doing the thing and building it, or is it about refinement and making it perfect and continuously improving and shaping this thing? Or in the middle, you know, that playmaker role of really coordinating.
And so probably like the spheres of impact that’s easy enough that listeners were kinda like, oh, I get those five types. And obviously I studied and you know, we can study to really learn the GC net more deeply, but it’s actually very intuitive for anybody who’s worked in a team. And so again, it’s that common language of not this kind of woo woo, I wanna end cancer purpose, but like, I wanna raise an empathetic, loving, risk-taking family. Okay, how are you gonna do that? Well, I’m gonna have a job that allows me flexibility. I’m gonna make enough money that I can invest in experience and I’m gonna align my IRA with whatever it is, right? I’m gonna take self-care so that I can have the courage to be a risk taker and to propose that, Okay, great, how am I gonna, you know, what’s the energy that I have for that? Well, it’s game changing. It’s these bold new blue ocean ideas.
My family who are maybe implementers, we’re gonna think I’m nuts and get a little frustrated, but I’m gonna look to them to build the thing and to plan the trip and realize that no, we can’t go to Bali and New Zealand and Cambodia on the same trip. That’s insane. We’d be exhausted and we do have work and a budget, but we can do Bali this time and maybe New Zealand in six years on our next trip, or whatever it is, right? So it’s just getting really clear about what you have natural energy for that lights you up and then finding people who compliment that so that you’re never in that kind of grown to-do list thing that we’ve all felt before and may have to do some days because we’re adults and their work is sometimes work. But what if work could be life-giving, since we all have that diversity, that different things are life-giving to me than you. If we just get clear and talk about it, actually, we could all be lit up at least most of the time.
Nancy: Right. Amen.
Nell: You know, so GC index gs the index is the data to get there.
Nancy: Yeah. I mean, and what I love about it is that there’s, there isn’t a hierarchy. It’s each of the spheres is as instrumental and elemental as the others. But what’s really important is finding, like you said, you know, what lights me up and what’s gonna, where’s my energy gravitating toward? And then how do I sort of fill in with people whose strengths are in the other spheres?
Nell: Bingo. Totally. There’s, there’s no good or bad, you know?
Nancy: Right.
Nell: And so it’s just about the awareness and understanding like, okay, as a, you know, small, high-end coach training firm, what mix do we need? It’s not that every team needs 20% of all five energies. That’s like, what mix do we need? Okay, how do we get there? And then how can we be an energy positive organization by fitting people in who provide those proportions of each energy that we need so that nobody is getting to their to-do list in the morning being like, Ugh, this is so draining. Everyone is coming, being like, awesome doing the two hours of work that actually fills them up more than depleting them like the electric car on the hill, and they actually end with a tank that’s fuller. You know, again, not that some of our work isn’t tiring or depleting because it’s effortful and it’s change making and it’s courageous and all of those things do take energy, but if they’re aligned with this higher purpose and with our natural energy, the results are pretty amazing.
Nancy: So as we’re sort of coming to a close here, I formerly, my podcast was called Your Permission Prescription, and I’m still really interested in this idea of permission of what we give ourselves permission for and what we don’t. And so I’d love to know if you would like to invite anyone listening to what you would invite them to give themselves permission for or to do.
Nell: Yeah, I love this angle and it clicked immediately because it’s something that I’ve talked about for a long time with. I worked with a lot of business executives, right? Whether MBAs at the beginning of their career sort of retiring, legacy seeking executives and, and everyone, and a lot of people in between. And so I talk a lot about being, you know, giving people permission to feel, to identify as purposeful. And again, kind of shaking off this nonsense that like, I’ll, well, I’ll, I’m, I’m working to quit and go work for the Peace Corps, and that’ll be my purpose chapter. I’m working to accumulate enough financial wealth that I start a family foundation, and that’ll be my purpose. BS, you know, as an investment banker, here is your permission to identify as a purposeful professional. And now this doesn’t mean you have to, you know, blow it up and go work for an impact fund, be an investment banker at Goldman, maybe, but ask questions, speak up, mentor people coming up who don’t look like the typical, you know, MDs at Goldman. Think about all the parties in the deal and who the different stakeholders are and who is maybe not getting their fair shake from the term sheet as you structure it. Like those are all ways to be really purposeful.
So, the permission is to really identify as purposeful no matter what your title, no matter what your age, your stage, your qualifications, your creds, your bank account, you know, whatever it is to really identify in that way. Not because you’re a good person, but BS again, because it is good for you. I it’s reducing your risk of heart disease. So please do this for yourself and for the rest of us who, you know, are gonna have much more pleasant conversations if you’re kind of grounded and not barking at us as you order your coffee or beeping at us in traffic. But yeah, just really take permission to, from right where you sit without suffering or giving up your identity or giving up joy or luxury, identify as wanting to do your part in healing the world.
Nancy: Mm, Thank you. Now, so how, how best can our listeners follow you? Stay in touch with you?
Nell: LinkedIn is, is definitely hub. I love it on there. As an introvert, our pre-call before the conference was very strategic to like, have a little safe side conversation, to have a friendly face in Austin and LinkedIn functions like that for me too. I’m starting on Thursday, the first new moon of the year, a bimonthly gathering. And so every new moon will be a speaker and some teaching from my book as well as their expertise and kind of setting some intention in a community.
Nancy: Online?
Nell: Yep. So LinkedIn, the invites are all on LinkedIn.
Nancy: Great.
Nell: It’s an open zoom.
Nancy: Great.
Nell: Come one, come all. There’ll be breakouts, there’ll be big groups. So very, very inclusive. And then every full moon will be kind of an ask me every, anything, look back on the last two weeks, the last six months, how am I doing that, you know, to provide some of that accountability and peer learning. So connect on LinkedIn and then you’ll see all of those invites and, and it’s a very open door.
Nancy: I love it. Now, thank you so much for being here with us today. I’m, I’m grateful and I’m grateful that I get to continue learning and being inspired by you.
Nell: Back at you, Nancy. Thank you so much. Total delight.
Nancy: Thanks so much for joining me today. I invite you to head on over to nancylevin.com to check out all the goodies I have there for you. And if you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a rating and a review. I’ll meet you back here next week.