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Episode 131 Transcript: Trusting Your Inner Whisper with Heather Chauvin

Heather: The truth is, if you want to go out into the world and you want to feel alive and aligned, you have to unsubscribe from title, roles. Like you are a human having a human experience. And we have been culturally defined as to what that should look like. But if that doesn’t feel good to you, listen to the whisper and I truly believe the more courageous and empowered other people become, that’s how we change the world.

Nancy: Welcome to Your Permission Prescription. I’m Nancy Levin, founder of Levin Life Coach Academy, bestselling author, master life coach, and your host. I train life coaches, aspiring coaches, and anyone who wants to add coaching skills to their current career to elevate their life and their business. I’ve coached thousands of people to live life on their own terms, and now I coach, train, and certify other coaches to do the same. 

If you are ready to give yourself permission to finally make yourself a priority and mobilize your vision, you are in the right place. Let’s dive in. 

Nancy: Welcome back to another episode of Your Permission Prescription. And I am delighted to be joined today by my guest, Heather Chauvin. She is a leadership coach who helps successful women courageously and authentically live, work and parent on their own terms. Heather started her career as a social worker, helping adults understand children’s behavior. But it wasn’t until 2013 when a stage four cancer diagnosis pushed her to take a deeper stand for change, uncovering how cultural expectations sabotage our dreams. Heather is a TEDx speaker. She’s the author of Dying to Be a Good Mother, and she’s the host of the Emotionally Uncomfortable Podcast. And today we have Heather here with us. Welcome. 

Heather: Thank you, Nancy. I’m so excited for this conversation. 

Nancy: Me too. And you know, right before we started recording, I love what you shared with me because I’m always the first to say, you know, I’m not a mother. And you so eloquently and elegantly shared that as women, we are all mothering. We are all nurturers. And I appreciate that. 

Heather: I thought you were gonna talk about me and my hair and being like, it is. So I’m like, men have it so easy, but like, I’m not kidding. I you know, some days I have to create content and I’m like, oh gosh, it’s gonna take me three hours, gotta wash my hair, I gotta dry it, gotta curl it. And I’m like, our wisdom, what is in our brains and like is so we, we have a voice, we have worth, we have impact beyond our roles, what we look like. So I’m excited to get in today’s conversation. 

Nancy: Lovely. So, you know, the thing that really strikes me, first of all, I’ve gotta say, I love your book title. I think it’s a brilliant title, Dying to Be a Good Mother. And what strikes me about your own personal story is this whole idea of waiting for a crisis to make change. So I would love for you to share a bit with the listeners about that journey for you. You know, who you were before 2013, and this diagnosis and the way the diagnosis woke you up and illuminated the path for you. 

Heather: All right. I’m like, every time I tell this story, I learn something new about myself. There’s always something that comes out. And you mentioned the title of the book, Dying to Be a Good Mother. And I just say, Dying to Be a Good and then insert a title. Mother, woman, sister, partner, business owner, leader, dying to be good for other people. And in 2013 I was diagnosed with stage four cancer. It was Sporadic Burkitt so I had these tumors, there’s actually a picture in the book. I looked pregnant and it just got so rapidly. So at first it was like bloat, I was bloated and I was like, oh, I gotta change the way that I’m eating. And then I go through the whole, the whole like story of how it unfolded but I’ll, and I’ll get into that. But previous to that, so nine years before that, it was actually becoming a mother that cracked me open. So I was 18, I remember looking at my son and thinking, I don’t wanna become a statistic. And what actually happened in that moment was, instead of just going with the flow, I was motivated by fear of failure. And at the core I say it was like as a, as a woman, right,  like I now have this pinnacle purpose and if I mess this up, I have failed as like a human being. And so the overwhelm of like overperforming in that role became my purpose. 

Nancy: Hmm. 

Heather: And so I’m overcompensating in mothering and I’m being rewarded culturally for it because I’m being told that I’m good. And as I’m being told that I’m good internally, I’m thinking, not this, not this, not this, this is not sustainable. Something bad is going to happen. That was nine years before my diagnosis. And so at the time I’m diving into personal development, I am reading the books, going to the retreats, hiring the mentors, doing all the things. And I know that I’m being told to quote unquote manifest to feel good, to do the things. And yet I felt like I didn’t have the time or capacity to do it because of my role. And so kept going, kept going, kept going. And then when my diagnosis happened, I always say like, cancer saved my life because, and I know a lot of people talk about this if they have like a diagnosis or something happens in their life, but for me, I knew deep down, and this is what I always tell people, like I knew deep down what I needed to do, how I wanted to feel, like what action I needed to take. But what I was actually afraid of was leaving the toxic culture of motherhood and womanhood. So I could feel myself actually leaving that toxic culture and expectation to save my life. And I didn’t care about fear of judgment, I didn’t care about all those things because I was so determined to live. And so I was physically dying mentally, emotionally, spiritually. If any of those buckets were actually full, I would say it was more spiritual because I was on a spiritual path. But yeah, I was physically dying to be good because my needs were considered selfish.

Nancy: Whew. Yes. And you know, I, in my books and in my work, talk a lot about reclaiming selfish. You know, talk a lot about the ways in which we’ve disowned that quality of selfish, we put selfless on a pedestal and in that word itself, you know, we disappear. And how much power there is in giving ourselves permission to put ourselves first.

Heather: Yeah. 

Nancy: And I imagine as a mother, the challenge is great, especially given like you said, the toxic culture and the expectation on mothers to put not only everyone else ahead of them, but especially their children. 

Heather: Yeah. And I feel like there’s so much secret shame to this. So my boys are now 19, 13 and 11. And I will tell you, I don’t know how many small identity crisis I have gone through just in that role. But when your children don’t need you anymore physically in the sense of like, they can feed themselves, they can wake up, they can run a bath, they can take a shower. I’ve watched myself over mother because what am I supposed to do with this time? What am I supposed to do with this energy? This is the role. 

But I will tell you, when I’m talking to women who are not raising children in a traditional sense, I see them over mothering or over nurturing their team, their friends, their friends’ children. And I’m like, listen ladies, we’re gonna be the nurturers. We’re going to be all of this. But there’s absolutely no reason why feeling empty inside, like when you logically think about it, how are you giving more to other people? Like how is that actually making an impact? And so this was such a, like, I’ve sat with this for so long and I’ve watched it in my own life, whether it’s my team, my clients, I know Nancy, you’re in like the coaching space as well. Letting someone actually have their transformation will requires you like to hold healthy boundaries. And sometimes they need to crash and burn when you’re like, I just so badly want to go in and rescue them. And I’ve watched that with my children, I’ve watched that with my team, I’ve watched that with my clients and my friends and family as well. And I’m realizing that cultural expectation as women of like give, give, give, give, give, you still, you get so many pats on the back. 

Nancy: Yeah. 

Heather: But that selflessness that you’re talking about is like taking away from people rising, from people having the transformation that they want and desire. And to me that is not actually good mothering or good whatever.

Nancy: Yeah. And you know, so much of it is being able to really hold others capable. And when we are living and breathing on the external validation that we receive, I know for myself, everything that I was seeking externally, all the validation, all the accolades, all the gold stars were never enough to fill the void. And I needed to, you know, resolve internally first what I was seeking externally. 

Heather: I remember I told you this before we hit record, that I met you at an event and like literally thinking in time, that was pre-diagnosis for me, I believe. 

Nancy: Wow. Yeah. 

Heather: It was probably like 12 ish plus years. 

Nancy: Right. 

Heather: And I think you were writing your book, I wanna call it Worthy.

Nancy: Yeah. 

Heather: Is that, does that make sense? 

Nancy: Yeah. That that certainly does. 

Heather: And you had another book out already. 

Nancy:  Jump… And Your Life Will Appear was out before that. 

Heather: Yes! And I remember you talking about Worthy, which, and whoever was there with you was talking about your book journey and they’re like, this isn’t a book. And like watching the messy transformation of like, like, because I didn’t have my book at the time wasn’t even close to writing one. And I just remember being like, I’m not alone in this journey of becoming or trying to figure out who you are. But that when I heard you talk about Worthy and the concept of worthiness, I didn’t even understand what that meant. Like, I feel worthy, I’m here, I paid to get on a plane to come here. Like how am I not worthy? And it wasn’t until my diagnosis when I realized like I’m checking external boxes that look good to other people. So I’m getting that validation, I’m like, I’m doing this, I’m good. But it wasn’t until I, I faced my deepest fears and actually like pushed myself and didn’t give myself a backdoor out that I was like, oh crap, this worthiness this. Like, am I worthy of feeling good? Am I worthy of embodying and acquiring what my soul craves? That was when I completely understood like, oh, I was unconsciously not validating or feeling valuable. 

Nancy: Yes. And I, I mean there’s so many things to say. You know, one is that we usually have this sense that something outside of us is going to have us feel worthy, someone or something. And that’s a really precarious position to put ourselves in because we’re letting someone else be the determiner of our worth. And so we are at the mercy of the ebb and flow. And so once we are able to be with our own inherent worth, you know, we are able to be stabilized in a foundation of feeling, of feeling that sense of self-worth. 

And one of the things in what you’ve shared so far that, you know, I had sort of alluded, before I asked you to share your story was this idea of, you know, the wake up call of your cancer essentially. And like you said, nine years prior, you knew something was off, you knew you needed to make a change. And what, you know, I very similarly but in the form of a divorce, you know, I knew what was wrong. I knew a change needed to be made. I waited for a crisis to make a change instead of rocking my own foundation first. And this idea of the way, and I do think it is, especially as women, I tend not to always go so much into the binary. But I do think as women, we wait for a crisis. We are so accustomed to just muscling through and pushing through and not paying attention to ourselves. And I’m just curious about your thoughts on that. 

Heather: Well, I think you and I both have said like the whisper was there. 

Nancy: Yeah. 

Heather: The knowing was there and I made a decision whether it was like a taught decision or not, to abandon that whisper. And I think conversations like this, like the more and more people, humans use their voice, tell their stories and maybe one day the ripple will be like, okay, I’m not gonna wait for the crisis. I’m really gonna listen to the whisper. 

But it does actually give me some hope because 10 years later, which feels like yesterday when the whisper is there, I tell myself, I can avoid this. How long do I want to avoid this for? Because what you resist will persist and grow bigger, which is not my quote. I know you know that too. And yeah, it’s, I know this. And so I tell people like, you have the answer. And life is not about, I don’t know, somebody else has the answers for me. I come back to like, how do I wanna feel? And my thing this year, and I’m sure Nancy, it’s for you too, like unfortunately it never gets, like the clouds don’t part. And if they do, it might be for a few hours. And if they do, you’re like, oh my gosh, hope. Like, okay, I got it. 

But this human journey, there’s always resistance there. And my goal has always been to come back in alignment. How do I wanna feel? And so this year specifically, I said to myself, take the action in alignment as if you actually trusted yourself. Like pretend you trusted yourself, what would you do? And it’s funny to watch other people when you ask them the same question because they’re like, sometimes they have a lot of resistance to answering that question because we actually gain value in not trusting ourselves. We gain value in playing, you can call it playing small, but hanging on to our stories. 

And I’m just gonna use mothering as an example ’cause it’s such a cultural thing. But I hid behind my children for so long, and then I had the awareness of like, I need to stop using them as an excuse. That is so incredibly rude of me to do as a mother. Because we all know what it’s like when someone’s like, you don’t know what I sacrificed for you. You don’t know what I did. And you’re like, listen, go live your life. Don’t live my life. And I’m like, I want my children to see what an empowered woman looks like. I want them to see what a human looks like when they are in alignment with how they wanna feel. And I also wanna teach my boys that like, I’m not gonna wipe your ass all the time. I’m not gonna pick up your shit and I’m not going to write a paycheck every single time you want to do something. I’m gonna teach you to work for things. And if you have stories in your own mind of what a woman should look like or what a man should look like, or human in general, the truth is, if you want to go out into the world and you want to feel alive and aligned, you have to unsubscribe from title, roles. Like you are a human having a human experience. And we have been culturally defined as to what that should look like. But if that doesn’t feel good to you, listen to the whisper. And I truly believe the more courageous and empowered other people become, that’s how we change the world. 

Nancy: I completely agree. And I think that that’s, you know, the power of doing inner work. Ultimately is to experience shifts in our own lives and become models for the people whose lives we impact. 

Heather: Yes. I, it has been funny to watch the resistance within myself and those around me, especially clients when they come to me and I’m like, why can’t you feel good? Like my thing is all about why can’t you feel good? Why can’t you have what you want? And those stories and the blocks and everything that we hold so dearly is us just trying to control the lack of certainty when we step out there into the world and we’re like, holy crap, I can actually do and be what my soul is craving. And again, we don’t need to do it overnight. Like if I go back to who I was when my diagnosis happened and reverse engineering how I got here, I checked the suffering box. I gave myself permission to check that box, and I was like, I’m done. I am absolutely done here. And I can see that if I truly want to become the type of person that my soul craves to be, I need to stop busying myself with other things and just get right to the point. 

And when I started to do that, I had to face my biggest fears. And I also had to do the things I didn’t wanna do. I had to face resistance, but I also had to give myself permission to feel good and know that that was going to piss a lot of people off. 

Nancy: Mm, yes. Yes. I appreciate that so much because I think, you know, we expend a lot of energy making sure that everyone else has exactly what they need and we’re so comfortable going without, and we don’t wanna rock the boat. And I think ultimately what we’re both, you know, sort of leaning into here is the way to give ourselves our own, not only our own permission, but our own validation. You know, I think about it like, so many of us only wanna do the thing that someone can give us a gold star for. We wanna be seen in the doing. So no one’s there to, to give us a pat on the back when we take a nice hot bath, you know, or no one’s there to give us a pat on the back when we’re meditating or journaling. And so it’s so easy to let those things go when really they’re the most important pieces of the self connection that are going to move us forward. 

Heather: Yeah. When I, Danielle LaPorte’s book, The Desire Map came out when I was diagnosed. And my biggest takeaway from that was reverse engineer how you wanna feel, right? It’s not the thing you’re after, it’s the feeling. 

Nancy: Yep. 

Heather: And I started to realize that things like a bath were part of the strategy to the bigger purpose. And so now when I get stuck on that, I realize that that little tiny bite is going to get me to the bigger goal. So probably like you, Nancy and everyone else watching this, like we’re very impact driven, like we wanna make an impact in the world, we wanna empower other people. So when I’m like about to take that bath and I’m like, but I could do this instead, or I’m about to go for that walk, and I’m like, I could do this instead. I still don’t make it about me. Like I have to trick my brain. I’m like, going for this walk is going to make an impact in these people’s lives. And I’m like, okay, then I’ll go for a walk. So I don’t know if that ever happens to you, but I just start reverse engineering how I want it to feel and then trick my brain into how is this making more money, having more time, having more energy, being more patient, being more focused, going to make an impact in the people’s lives that I care about. And when I started to think about it that way, it was like I was tricking my brain. It was a little, a little brain hack. 

Nancy: It’s interesting that you mention what you did about Danielle. It’s in my book Worthy, I have an exercise called 50 Desires, and it’s very similar to her desire map in that focusing, you know, it might be that I want a private jet, but it’s not really that I want a private jet. What I wanna feel is freedom. And then to be able to really ask myself, what action can I take today that will elicit freedom in me? You know, so what can I do to bring the freedom in? And I, it’s interesting your brain hack because I think for me, I’ve actually had to go the opposite direction, to move away from it having anything to do with anyone else and really learn how to focus on, if this is only for me, that’s okay. Instead of, because my default has always been the people pleasing and the peacekeeping and the conflict avoiding and the overgiving and the, you know, boundarylessness. You know, it was really, that’s what I thought made me exceptional in so many ways. And so I really had to go the opposite direction to realize that if this is just, and only for me, that’s the place I had to begin.

Heather: Yeah. I I can hear that. I totally feel that. And I think I have to do it to get myself started. 

Nancy: Yeah. 

Heather: I think now I, it, it’s a completely different conversation with myself, but when I started I had to make it about other people. 

Nancy: Yeah. 

Heather: And even though it was still coming from a rescuer place, or it was still coming from the peacekeeper or, you know, the hyper independence, I had to make it about someone else. And then along that journey I did come back to like me, and I don’t know about you, but do you still, do you have seasons where you’re like, all right, like, you gotta rein it in, you gotta bring it back. Because I’m like, what is it that I’m craving? I’m always about desire. Always, always, always. But there’s some seasons where I’m like, Ooh, I gotta go a level deeper. Or I have to go a level deeper where I’ve been hanging out in the top and it’s been filling my cup and it’s good, but then there’s like something else is rear in its ugly head and it’s craving my attention.

Nancy: Yeah. I mean, I wonder, so I, you know, as I’ve already said, I have no children, im also unpartnered so I’m very solo in my life. I mean, I have friends and I have my team and all of that. But I think because I spend so much time with myself without a lot of distraction and not a lot of, like in my presence distraction, the way in which I have to sort of pull myself out is to, is toward engagement, you know, is toward connection. So like that’s when, ’cause I tend to be in a lot of self connection or a lot of introspection or a lot of just sort of with myself. And so I notice, like for me, the push is to be able to listen for when I need to be outward instead of inward. Which, you know, it’s so, it’s always fascinating when there’s someone who like speaks on stages and all he writes books and all this, who’s an introvert, you know, which is me. 

Heather: I was gonna say, that’s me too. 

Nancy: Right. You know, but it’s, it’s so common I have discovered, you know, but I, I have to really sort of push myself to, to go outward in terms of listening to desire versus, versus the what do I want. I have to really more pay attention to how can I, yeah. How can I get outside of myself? 

Heather: My, I have someone on my team, and she’s single, no children, and we have this conversation all the time. ’cause she, I’m like, what’d you do this weekend? And she’s like, I went here, I did this, I did this. And I’m like, oh my god, I just wanted to like hide in the woods. And she’s like, well, do you think that’s because like we have these conversations all the time, and I’m like, I think I’m just, because I’m in a season where there’s so much energy and people around me all the time, and I’m spending so much mental energy that I want to hear myself. And I do spend a lot of, I say alone time or introspection, whether it’s like, I don’t know, in the tub or whatever. But it’s funny to watch the ying and the yang with that, and also seasonality. But this is exactly why I think women need to be in a community. And I know the, one of the first, and we’ve briefly talked about this, but one of the first things that another woman will say to me is like, I have children, or I don’t have children. And I think we are labeling ourselves and each other based on like, I’m without. And it’s like me, I’m always attracted to those people because I’m like, I need you in my life. I need you in my life. I think when we are experiencing different things in our lives, and you know, I love diversity in the sense of like, people who are in different industries or don’t have the same belief systems. It’s like we can all learn from each other and there’s always a through line which is coming home to ourselves. It’s fascinating to watch. 

And I remember like when my children were younger, I often think about what I needed then versus what I need now and who I wanna be and my boundaries were different. You know, sometimes when things are trending and it’s like, check up on your people, like every, you know, check up on your strong friends, check up on this. And I’m like, I’m exhausted checking up on people I don’t wanna check up on people or like, what type of boundaries do you need? And I think it’s just like nature, wverything sways, the wind changes, but it’s, it again, it’s coming back home to yourself. Who do you wanna be? How do you wanna feel? And how can you reverse engineer that? Take away the labels, take away the hats, take away the rules. You can have all of those things. But when you’re driven by how much money’s in your bank account or like, you know, how the, even the quality of your relationships or anything like that, you’re like, just come back home to yourself and live from the inside out. And that’s where the magic happens. 

Nancy: I agree with that entirely. 

Heather: Yeah. 

Nancy: So one of the things that I know that you talk about is, and I’m very interested in as well, is living a sustainable life and having a sustainable business. You know, and the myth, I think of balance, you know, that it really is the whole, I, you know, I know that I look at my life, my work as a whole. And for me it’s not super boundaried, but I wonder for you, you know, how do you operate in the world with your business, your family and sustainability? 

Heather: So sustainability to me just means alignment. And I know that this season in my life, I’ve watched, it’s so sneaky, but I’ve watched how I’m always asking myself, how do I feel now? And how far away am I from how I want to feel? And balance to me is almost like, you know, I wanna hit X amount of revenue in my, like, I don’t know why people ask that question. Like balance, like what does that mean, right? There seems to be perfectionism around that question. And I’m like, well, that’s a coping strategy. Like if we’re gonna utilize perfection as the benchmark, we’re going to fail all the time, or we’re gonna think and feel like we’re failing.

So for me, sustainability is, I might have more capacity than the person sitting next to me this week, but I may not have it next week. And so I’m always asking, is this in alignment? And how can I buy back my time and energy? So as I’m grow, do I want to grow and scale my business? Am I comfortable where I am? Am I buying into somebody else’s belief of like, you should be bigger, you should do more. I’ve had a few in the last year, moments where I’ve looked at my team and I have said, not this, like I am done. And they’re like, oh, this needs to get done, this needs to get done. And I’m like, I’m staying put, I am not moving, I am not doing that thing. This is not sustainable anymore. And I do that by feeling, right? Like, how do I feel? If it’s like a day or a week? And I’m like, okay, you know, I’m stretched. It’s been this intuitive thing where I’m like, I’m gonna challenge myself. I’m gonna grow, I’m gonna do things a little bit differently. But if I’m now becoming angry and resentful or numb, I know that I’ve abandoned a part of myself. And so it’s always an intuitive conversation that I’m having with myself. But I’ve had to learn to test it, to know, is this resistance or is this truth? And then communicate that to other people and to stand firm with the boundary.

Now on the other side, when you talk about sustainability, is observing this in other people, it’s always easier to see it in other people. So I’m always watching behavior. I observe people’s behavior and energy over their words. So when someone’s like, I’m good, I’m good, I’m good. And you, they’re just running and you’re like, you’re not okay. Like the deadlines aren’t being met, or like you’re burning out, like, what is really going on? No, I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m like, I’m gonna pretend that your behavior is saying to me this isn’t sustainable, then we’re gonna course correct. But if you’re experiencing shame or guilt or fear, and that’s why you’re telling me you’re okay, your behavior is indicating it is not. 

And so my whole vision, my goal is sustainability. So therefore I’m focused on that. And then I try to reverse engineer that in every area. I’ll give you another example. I had this woman come and work with me inside my program, like as a client. And she wanted to learn about managing her energy and her time. And she was learning this. She was coming from corporate. She also wanted to learn some things about her children, their behavior. And then she started working on my team. So I actually hired her on my team. She goes, I have never had an employer, a boss, ask me how many times, like care about my wellness, the amount of times you do. And at the end of it, it was hilarious to witness how she, well it wasn’t hilarious, but she actually said to me, I took a personality test and I took one when I came in here and my personality has actually changed. I have more emotional markers on my personality now because my behavior has changed and my actions have changed and I’ve reentered into the corporate world because she left my team reentered into the corporate world. And she goes, and I feel in alignment and this is now sustainable. 

And so it’s really hard to understand what that is until you start doing the inner work because we’re so used to blaming a system or a company or a nine to five job, when in reality it’s really about looking within having these boundaries and reverse engineering it.

But it does change based on season, based on week and how you feel. 

Nancy: Given the conversation that we’ve been having about feeling. I know for me that prior to, you know, the quote, the sort of wake up call of my ex-husband reading my journals that sent me on the path to my divorce, I prided myself essentially on not feeling, on being numb. And that’s how I was able to do all the things I did. And I wonder, you know, if you see a correlation sort of with the numbness and the not listening to the whisper. 

Heather: So first of all, I’ll say pre-children, pre-mothering, I was numb. I had no idea what a feeling was at all. And because I didn’t get the opportunity to go into my adulthood with that, I think I just would’ve been numb. I would’ve continued on that journey. My children shook me, my oldest shook me and forced me to feel. And so kind of like the same journal conversation, the rupture where you’re like, oh my god, I’m screwed, right? Relationships are beautiful teachers. For me, that was when I was getting conversations from my son’s school saying, you know, there’s behavior stuff coming out, anger, anxiety. And then I started digging into things like, what does this mean? And again, I was projecting outward, the blame, the shame. I don’t know if this was your situation as well, but you’re like, somebody else needs to learn this. Somebody else needs to do this work. And then I turned the mirror back on myself and I didn’t understand what it meant. It was like learning a new language. 

Nancy: Yeah. 

Heather: And it’s fascinating to know that now that’s what guides my life. But you’re, yeah, it’s, it’s interesting to know how like you can live your life numb and then once you see it, you can’t unsee it. 

Nancy: Yeah. 

Heather: And until you kind of cross that emotional bridge and learn the language of emotional intelligence, one area of your life will disrupt that for you. It’s usually a relationship. Maybe it’s a relationship with your health, your money, your time, your energy, your partner, family, something will shake the shit outta you to get your attention. And then that’s where you’re getting into emotional intelligence 101. 

Nancy: I so appreciate this conversation. And you know, the name of this podcast is Your Permission Prescription. So I would love for you to offer the listeners what you invite them to give themselves permission for or permission to. 

Heather:  Permission to feel alive.Permissionm and whatever that definition is for you. For some, it’s going after what they’ve been avoiding. For some, it’s having incredibly emotionally uncomfortable conversations. For some, it’s letting go of people that don’t feel alive. But if something allows you to feel lighter and more like yourself, you’re headed on the right path. 

But along the journey there’s gonna be grief, there’s gonna be overwhelm, there’s gonna be doubt. But if you are feeling lighter, more alive, more you, I give you permission to do that because that is the secret we are all searching for in our wealth building, in our business building, in our relationship connection, in our own health. It doesn’t matter what book you read, at the end of the day, it’s coming back to you.

Nancy: Mm. Thank you. And what is the best way for listeners to stay in touch with you? 

Heather: You can find me at the podcast or on the podcast Emotionally Uncomfortable, or just check out my website, Heather Chauvin, C-H-A-U-V-I-N. That’s where I hang out. I got quizzes, podcasts, the book, Dying to Be a Good Mother. And that’s where I’m at.

Nancy: Thanks so much, Heather. Thanks for being here today and for everyone listening, I’ll be back again with you next week

Thanks so much for joining me today on Your Permission Prescription. For even more, I invite you to head on over to nancylevin.com and sign up for my newsletter, The Practice, and follow me on social media. 

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