00:00:03:06 – 00:00:27:22
Nancy Levin
Welcome back to the Nancy Levin Show. Boy, are you in for a treat today. I have been so looking forward to bringing my guest, Lucy Meggeson, here to you. Lucy has worked in production at BBC radio two for several years, followed by a brief stint as a detective.
00:00:27:25 – 00:00:28:18
Lucy Meggeson
Don’t even go there.
00:00:28:28 – 00:01:00:16
Nancy Levin
I know, right? Right. Before becoming the host and producer of her own podcast, Thrive Solo, which I have had the privilege of being a guest upon when it was formerly called Spinster Hood Reimagined. And this podcast celebrates all things single child free and personal growth. She also created and runs a membership community, Thrive Solo, for single women who are passionate about living their best lives regardless of their relationship status.
00:01:00:18 – 00:01:28:11
Nancy Levin
Her very first book is out right now and I’m going to show it to you. I know right? And it is so fabulous that it has two titles. So if you happen to be listening from the UK, this book is called Shiny Happy Singles. And if you are in the US and Canada, her book is called Thrive Solo and like I said, it is out right now.
00:01:28:18 – 00:01:37:23
Nancy Levin
It’s about embracing the freedom and opportunity that a single childfree life affords. Hi, Lucy.
00:01:37:25 – 00:01:57:27
Lucy Meggeson
Hi, Nancy. Thank you. So, so, so much for having me. It is so lovely to see you. And as I said at the very beginning, when I first came on zoom, I was like, wow, you are looking hot. So thank you, thank you, thank you for having me. And it’s just great to chat to you again because the last time we probably spoke was like you said when you were on my podcast.
00:01:57:28 – 00:02:06:01
Lucy Meggeson
Yes, it was just I fell in love with you then and it was just such a great conversation. So I’m so happy to be here. So thank you for having me.
00:02:06:03 – 00:02:21:03
Nancy Levin
I felt the same way about you. I felt like the minute we met, I felt such a sisterhood with you because let’s just call it what it is. It’s not necessarily a popular position to be happily single and childfree.
00:02:21:06 – 00:02:50:22
Lucy Meggeson
No, it’s really not. But, you know, it’s funny because actually, I love kind of challenging this question mark over can you really be happily single and childfree? I quite enjoy swimming against the tide instead of being different in that way. And really just being on this mission to show the goddamn world that life as a single childfree woman, childfree, childless, a woman without kids.
00:02:50:22 – 00:03:13:05
Lucy Meggeson
However you want to say it. Yeah, gets to be awesome, too. And as you know, one of my main messages is that being single or not having kids, it’s no better. It’s no worse than being married without them. It’s just different. But the truth is that it’s equal. It’s like it’s just different. It’s like any life path has joy, has sorrow, has dark, has light.
00:03:13:07 – 00:03:20:12
Lucy Meggeson
But being single, not having kids gets to be just as fabulous as being married and having them, you know?
00:03:20:14 – 00:03:49:18
Nancy Levin
Amen. So again, I got the book right here and in the introduction, you know, you very clearly say, I aim to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the state of being called happily single and child free is very much achievable. It’s important to point out from the beginning that I’m not trying to suggest that being single and child free is necessarily better than being in a couple, only that it isn’t any worse.
00:03:49:20 – 00:04:33:10
Nancy Levin
And I just loved that. I mean, it’s so crystal clear as a woman who is childfree by choice, single by choice, I do not date. I personally have zero desire to couple up to be partnered any of it. I find it is so much more impactful to the world to have children and even really to be in relationship that I really am dumbfounded sometimes why people feel the need to have their say about how I’m living my life, because it’s far less impact on the world, the way I’m choosing to live.
00:04:33:12 – 00:05:00:06
Lucy Meggeson
Totally, 100%, I mean, and that environment and the planet itself is just one of the many reasons that actually we need to start just taking a beat and asking ourselves, is this what I really, truly want? And just before we hit record, you and I were talking about the fact it’s incredible how the narrative among so many people still is.
00:05:00:06 – 00:05:20:17
Lucy Meggeson
Well, you know what’s wrong with you if you’re not having kids, why don’t you have kids? And there’s this just this constant question of like, but you know, this is what we’re here to do and this is what you should do if you’re a woman, if you’re like a normal woman. And actually, there are so many reasons to completely flip that on its head and ask the absolute reverse of that, which is why do you want them?
00:05:20:24 – 00:05:37:02
Lucy Meggeson
And are you sure that it is right for you to be having them? Because this is part of the problem, not to mention the fact that we’re massively overpopulated and all the many, many reasons which I talk about in the book, you know, as to why it’s not great for the planet. All I say, I talk about it.
00:05:37:02 – 00:05:57:17
Lucy Meggeson
I had a fabulous guest on called Nandita Bajaj, who, works for a company called Population Balance. And she basically does a massive quote from her in the book about the impact that overpopulation is having on the planet. But aside from that, getting married and having kids, both those things have been over romanticized.
00:05:57:19 – 00:05:59:29
Nancy Levin
Oh my god. Yeah.
00:06:00:01 – 00:06:20:17
Lucy Meggeson
Somehow we still find ourselves tripping up to get down the aisle and to have children without truly questioning whether it is the right choice for us. Because there is no doubt that not every single woman is meant to have kids, or even necessarily wants to have kids, right? I mean, you and I are a case in point, right?
00:06:20:19 – 00:06:53:20
Lucy Meggeson
Case in point. Yeah. And one thing I think is really important to point out is how many children are there out there who are born to parents who aren’t necessarily the perfect model of of parents? You know, so many kids are not in a great situation. And there are so many, you know, not to mention the difficulties of actually being a parent, but so many children are born into families that perhaps if those two parents had actually asked themselves, should we have kids?
00:06:53:22 – 00:07:09:14
Lucy Meggeson
You know, maybe they wouldn’t have gone down that road. But because of the societal narrative and because it is so ingrained in us that we should have kids, many, many, many people are doing it without questioning whether it is actually right for them, whether they even want that from their lives, you know?
00:07:09:20 – 00:07:44:10
Nancy Levin
Yeah. Which is why I think that this book you’ve written is really it’s ground breaking, unapologetic manifesto. That’s how I feel about it. No, it is reclaiming the narrative around single childfree women, and it’s not aimed at fixing singlehood. You know, this is a joyful celebration of a path that is to0 often cast aside. And I really want to hone in on this.
00:07:44:11 – 00:08:23:02
Nancy Levin
You know, this book, your podcast, your community is really for women who are happily solo, struggling to get there, or simply curious about what an empowered single life can really look like. And what I love so much about you is you are. You’re fucking funny, you know? So it’s through humor, through honesty, deeply personal reflection, as well as sharing stories of others that you really invite us in to stop apologizing for our independence and to start celebrating it.
00:08:23:04 – 00:08:42:01
Lucy Meggeson
Yeah, well bless you. Thanks so much for your incredibly kind words. And you know, I love the way that you describe the book. I take that as a huge compliment. And but I guess that actually, although there have been plenty of books written about being single and plenty of books written about about not, it’s the combo platter. Yeah.
00:08:42:01 – 00:09:01:13
Lucy Meggeson
And it’s not only this sort of combo, I think it’s also the fact that it’s the combination of both of those things and celebrating it. Absolutely. You know, more often than not, most books I think about being single. I think it’s fair to say that there is this sort of underlying assumption that we are all trying to un single ourselves.
00:09:01:13 – 00:09:37:17
Lucy Meggeson
Right. And my message is always, you know, whether or not you get into a relationship somewhere down the line. Yeah, being single gets to be great. Your life gets to be great right now with or without a partner. And so, yeah, I mean, I, really appreciate you kind of you know, diving into the book a bit because it does feel like a big deal and it does feel like something that perhaps hasn’t really been done before in this way, because it’s just not a life that is celebrated because there’s so much negative stigma around both being single and not having kids.
00:09:37:17 – 00:09:42:05
Lucy Meggeson
And it’s time that the truth was out. Because as you and I both know. It gets to be fucking fantastic.
00:09:42:08 – 00:10:24:12
Nancy Levin
It does, it does. And one of the things I love that you share early on, you know, you say that being single and childfree can be beer and skittles if we let it. I’m curious, like, what was the moment for you that you realized this wasn’t just possible, but this really is your truth and that this enjoyment, empowerment, embracing of it was yours for the taking instead of what historically is cast upon us in terms of pity or poor you or or the worst personally that I feel is, oh, just wait, you’ll change your mind.
00:10:24:12 – 00:10:43:28
Nancy Levin
Or, you know, Disney and Jerry Maguire did us no service in the, you know, just wait your prince will come or your princess will come or whatever. So when was it for you that all of this crystallized that this became a choice and that it was the choice you really wanted to inhabit?
00:10:44:01 – 00:11:15:25
Lucy Meggeson
Well, it’s funny because I think it was almost more of a dawning realization, although there was a moment, which is how, you know, all of this started this sort of idea to write a book and create a podcast and all of that. And actually it came from it was during lockdown, and it was one beautiful summer’s afternoon, and I was sitting outside on this bench and I was reading through some, messages in a WhatsApp group with my sort of closest oldest girlfriends, all of whom, you know, a couple that with kids and what it and what it was.
00:11:15:25 – 00:11:38:14
Lucy Meggeson
But it just occurred to me in that moment that I just felt really, really sort of smug. And I had this moment of just like, oh my gosh, like I was reading these messages and, you know, this was the this was the days of frickin homeschooling children and people realizing that they didn’t want to be with their partner.
00:11:38:14 – 00:11:57:22
Lucy Meggeson
And, you know, all of these things that were happening in lockdown and ironically, all the sort of narrative around, oh, the poor single people living on their own, whereas I think quite a lot of us were just like quite enjoying ourselves, actually. But I have this moment where I thought to myself, oh my God, why is nobody talking about this?
00:11:57:28 – 00:12:17:12
Lucy Meggeson
And I think in the couple of years leading up to that point, I just felt really, really happy for no other reason than I just felt happy. There was no guy on the horizon, you know? I was, I was so single that it wasn’t even funny. You know? You know, when you’re so single that you will be both you and I know this.
00:12:17:12 – 00:12:33:00
Lucy Meggeson
It’s like when you’re the kind of single that you and I are, where there is no one, that’s just kind of gone off the scene, and there is no one who is, like, about to be on the scene. There’s no sort of potential. There’s no, you know, we’re not out there trying to make it happen because whatever, we’re just busy getting on with our lives.
00:12:33:00 – 00:13:01:04
Lucy Meggeson
And so those two moments, I it really occurred to me that, oh my gosh, I’m actually so grateful for my life. And also around that same time, something occurred to me that had never really occurred to me before, which was that actually I like myself so much more when I’m single. Yeah, I feel like I am so much better in in so many ways.
00:13:01:04 – 00:13:29:25
Lucy Meggeson
When I’m on my own, I feel like I am the best version of myself as a single woman without kids. And and again, this was something that sort of, I think had been dawning on me sort of very gradually, but around about the sort of 2021 time. So 4 or 5 years ago, it really started hitting me. And, and then as soon as I kind of realized it for myself, that is when I wanted to start talking about it, because it suddenly felt really bizarre.
00:13:29:25 – 00:13:35:22
Lucy Meggeson
I’m really unfair that my life situation that I felt really great in.
00:13:35:24 – 00:13:36:12
Nancy Levin
Yeah.
00:13:36:12 – 00:13:48:23
Lucy Meggeson
It felt really unfair and unjust that the world still saw my life, i.e. someone who is single and didn’t have kids as somehow a bit sad or a bit pathetic, or was she hasn’t quite made it or…
00:13:49:00 – 00:13:51:02
Nancy Levin
Or less than.
00:13:51:04 – 00:14:13:23
Lucy Meggeson
Exactly, exactly less than. Yeah. And in fact, the less than narrative is one that I find particularly toxic. And just so, so negative, this idea that we are less than. And also it’s this idea that no matter what you might be doing with your life, you might be rocking it, you might have just written a bloody book or whatever it is.
00:14:14:04 – 00:14:35:21
Lucy Meggeson
But somehow it’s not quite as good as getting married and having kids. Even if the marriage is shit. The kids are drug addicts, causing you massive amounts of stress and anguish because you know without those things you are still less than they might it. No matter whether you’re rocking your life. Yeah, you know, it’s crazy. It really is.
00:14:35:21 – 00:15:05:24
Nancy Levin
Yeah. One of the things, you know, the premise of everything that you’re sharing and even just right here because society really does equate partnership with success and that there is this whole damaging, normative unconscious that we are dealing with the court, the couple norm. Exactly. And it is there is such there is such emphasis placed on that no matter where you look.
00:15:05:27 – 00:15:30:19
Nancy Levin
And I’m so grateful that you have taken such a bold stand. You’ve got your megaphone out to share that there is another way. And one of the things I so appreciate and I know we talked a bit about this when I was on your podcast as well, because I think both of us love reclaiming the word selfish.
00:15:30:21 – 00:15:31:12
Lucy Meggeson
Yes.
00:15:31:12 – 00:15:59:00
Nancy Levin
And you have flipped the script on selfish, really revealing it as a pathway to service and wholeness. And taking care of ourselves actually, is what needs to be the primary focus point. We need to prioritize our own well-being. Yeah, to show up for ourselves and show up for others. And I would love to. You know, my listeners have heard me talk about selfish till I’m blue in the face.
00:15:59:04 – 00:16:10:12
Nancy Levin
So I would love for you to take a little time here and just talk about what reclaiming selfish means for you and for thriving solo.
00:16:10:15 – 00:16:35:17
Lucy Meggeson
Yeah, I mean, I actually I want to quote one of my favorite quotes, which is don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive? Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. And I think that really says it all because the truth is, and especially the state of the world today, let’s not even go there.
00:16:35:17 – 00:17:13:13
Lucy Meggeson
There is so much darkness going on and dare I say that a lot of that darkness is happening because people don’t take the time to go inwards and to truly find out who they are and understand that wholeness has to come from within. And going back to that quote, when you do the things that light you up, that make you feel excited, you essentially spread that joy into the world and you give people permission to do the same.
00:17:13:18 – 00:17:18:09
Lucy Meggeson
Which is why the selfish myth is exactly that. It’s a fucking myth.
00:17:18:11 – 00:17:20:17
Nancy Levin
No, yes, it really is.
00:17:20:20 – 00:17:43:11
Lucy Meggeson
Because actually, by being quote, selfish, we are taking the time to look after ourselves and actually looking after yourselves and doing the work on yourself, doing that sort of inner work to become the best version of yourself. What that is doing is helping the rest of the world. And it’s funny because so many of us, we’re kind of we’re all very good at going, oh yeah, this is shit.
00:17:43:11 – 00:18:04:03
Lucy Meggeson
The world is shit, and that’s bad and that’s terrible. And but are we actually doing anything about it? Well, most people are probably not, dare I say it. Or a lot of people are not actually doing that kind of. Watching what’s going on. They’re getting all anxious. They’re getting worried, they’re moaning and they’re complaining, but they’re not actually doing anything to change the things that they’re worrying and moaning and complaining about.
00:18:04:06 – 00:18:39:26
Lucy Meggeson
When you take the time to go inwards and do things as I say that make that really light, you are and make you feel alive. That actually is the best way of helping the rest of the world. Because if everybody did that, if every single person did that, this world truly would be a better place. So I think actually, you know, by being single and not having kids and having all of this time or whatever, actually it is the least selfish thing you can do.
00:18:39:28 – 00:19:02:19
Lucy Meggeson
And also when you get to take time for yourself and make sure that your cup is full, you know, it’s that classic thing, you’ve got to put your seatbelt on first before you can help anyone else. But what you’re doing by improving yourself and taking time to look after yourself is you’re then showing up as the best version of yourself for the people that you love.
00:19:02:21 – 00:19:14:06
Lucy Meggeson
And that really is the best thing that you can do, not just for the people that you love, but for the sort of wider community as well, and, and the wider world ultimately. So I think that’s what being selfish means to me.
00:19:14:08 – 00:19:44:19
Nancy Levin
I love it, thank you. Yes. Because we’re so aligned on this and then sort of right, you know, piggybacking on this or sort of next to this is really the way we talk about freedom and solitude and sanctuary in terms of what I will often say is, what I love most about being single is I don’t need to take anyone else into account for my choices.
00:19:45:02 – 00:20:18:06
Nancy Levin
And that single and childfree, that’s for me, one of the greatest pieces. And to me that’s freedom. Yes, you can call it selfish. And I will own I am, I am selfish, but it’s the freedom piece that I get to really choose what works for me and what doesn’t and what I what. I’ll also just sort of seed this with, because I know that this is another piece, you know, like when you said in the WhatsApp group, you know, the smug feeling of being single and child free because I know that well, too.
00:20:18:12 – 00:20:46:14
Nancy Levin
You know, people with kids who will say to me, blah, blah, blah, reason 1,000,003 not to have children or not to get married or you know, because they know. And so really doubling down on this freedom is not a consolation prize. It’s a reward. And it is something that we can really take ownership of. And even the piece around living alone.
00:20:46:16 – 00:20:47:21
Nancy Levin
Yeah, I can’t.
00:20:47:21 – 00:20:48:20
Lucy Meggeson
Oh my gosh.
00:20:48:22 – 00:20:59:07
Nancy Levin
I mean oh my God, I can’t even imagine living with another human being. I know you’ve got your cat, but I can’t imagine living with a human.
00:20:59:10 – 00:21:24:27
Lucy Meggeson
Absolutely. I mean, just to pick up on what you’re saying about freedom first of all. This is and this is one of the things that blows my mind on a regular basis is the fact that these incredible benefits and advantages that come with being single and not having kids are so underrated. And freedom is kind of obvious, one that people always, you know, everyone sort of knows that.
00:21:24:27 – 00:21:52:03
Lucy Meggeson
Everyone kind of thinks of that. It absolutely amazes me that these kinds of things, like freedom are not appreciated more. And I think, again, it’s because what we do is we brush off things like freedom because we are led to believe, and we’re conditioned to believe that being married and having kids is the pinnacle of success. So we brush off the things that we lose when we get into a relationship and when we have kids.
00:21:52:06 – 00:22:12:23
Lucy Meggeson
And actually, the truth is that some of those things are not to be brushed off. Freedom being the, you know, one of the main ones. Peace. This is another one that I talk about a lot on the podcast. I talked about it in the book. There are so many underrated benefits and so many underrated advantages of being single, and peace is one of them.
00:22:12:23 – 00:22:34:18
Lucy Meggeson
I mean, ultimately, what do most of us want? Most of us want to feel peaceful, right? Most of us want to feel peaceful, and actually being single and not having kids lends itself to a life of peace. So obviously. But again, it’s one of those things that, well, you know, when you get married, you have kids, of course, you know, your life is going to be less peaceful because you have a husband and you have kids and blah, blah, blah.
00:22:34:21 – 00:22:56:28
Lucy Meggeson
But again, it’s something that is just it’s brushed off as if it doesn’t mean anything. Another thing that I talk about is, sort of emotional stability and the fact that when you don’t have anyone else to worry about in your immediate life and anyone else to answer to and anyone else is moves to sort of navigate on a day to day basis.
00:22:57:00 – 00:23:05:28
Lucy Meggeson
That’s one of the things I love the very most about being single and not having kids is just, I know where I am from, an emotional sense and that is. That is huge.
00:23:06:00 – 00:23:07:15
Nancy Levin
00:23:07:17 – 00:23:31:10
Lucy Meggeson
You know? So freedom, peace, emotional stability, all of the other things that come with being single and not having kids again, it just blows my mind that these things are not talked about, not even really brought into the light. It’s just it’s almost like it doesn’t occur to people that a single life without kids could in any way match married life with them, you know?
00:23:31:16 – 00:24:12:10
Nancy Levin
Yes. Everything you just said. I just want to amplify and double down. Because what I, when I really came to realize is that I have a challenging time self-regulating. When I am around other people, I have a hard time regulating around others. And when I am on my own, I can really self-regulate and I think it’s important to say for me, you know, because I do a lot of work with people who are people pleasers, peace keepers, conflict avoiders, people who want to rock the boat, people who have very leaky boundaries.
00:24:12:17 – 00:24:28:21
Nancy Levin
And I have been all of those things. A lot of it was because I never had such a solid sense of myself before getting into the relationships I got into, where I lost myself entirely.
00:24:28:24 – 00:24:29:22
Lucy Meggeson
Totally.
00:24:29:24 – 00:24:58:13
Nancy Levin
And now to be able to be in a place where I know myself, I love myself, I cherish my time with myself. I really look at alone. As with me, there is no negative connotation with me inside of me, right? And so that for me is the biggest celebration that just like what you said, I get to wake up in the morning and I’m not.
00:24:58:17 – 00:25:18:05
Nancy Levin
I’m not fielding anyone else’s energy or mood. I’m not trying to be a chameleon. I’m not people pleasing. I’m not peacekeeping. I in fact, get to just check in with what’s here and what’s true and what’s real and operate from there.
00:25:18:05 – 00:25:42:01
Lucy Meggeson
Completely, and I mean, it truly is a joy. I resonate with everything that you just said, and I feel exactly the same way. I begin my morning most days with my morning routine. I get up at five, I have time for meditation. I have time for a workout. I have a time for a morning walk. All of these things exactly like you say, to emotionally regulate and to just bring myself back into balance.
00:25:42:03 – 00:26:11:18
Lucy Meggeson
And like you say, you’re not dealing with somebody else’s moods and you’re not having to navigate other people, and especially with not just with a partner, but with kids too. There is just something so incredibly freeing about that. And it’s such a gift. This is the thing that people, I think, really do not realize or do not acknowledge that actually being single and living alone can be such a gift and the same as you.
00:26:11:19 – 00:26:36:11
Lucy Meggeson
My alone time. My time with me is precious and I love every bloody minute of it. I need it and it’s funny because, you know, you mentioned at the beginning that if you are single by choice, and I never used to describe myself a single by choice because I sort of ended up single right? I didn’t that was there wasn’t a day where I was like, right, I’ve decided I’m going to be single for the rest of my life.
00:26:36:11 – 00:26:59:29
Lucy Meggeson
It’s a choice I’m making. I came out of my last relationship and I was single, right? But it wasn’t that I ever went, okay, I’m deciding to stay single. I just carried on being single because I just did. But actually, as the last seven and a half years have gone, I find that I am choosing now in a way that I perhaps wasn’t a few years ago.
00:27:00:05 – 00:27:24:28
Lucy Meggeson
Now. It is a choice, and my point is that to give up the things that you and I are talking about would. Yeah, huge, huge sacrifice. And honestly, and this is why I now describe myself as single by choice, because the thought of sacrificing all of the wonderful things that come with being single and not having kids, I can’t even fathom it.
00:27:24:28 – 00:27:55:26
Lucy Meggeson
I can’t even imagine it. And honestly, although one thing I did say on the podcast is, you know, who knows? I’ve been in many relationships over the years and I, I can’t sit here and say I will definitely be single forever, but as far as I know, myself, it really wouldn’t surprise me if I was. And I know that if that is the case, and that is absolutely fine by me, because again, un singling myself would be a massive sacrifice and I honestly don’t know what it would take for me to do that.
00:27:55:26 – 00:28:14:15
Lucy Meggeson
I really, really don’t. Even if, I mean, I’ve talked about this before, but even if Mr. So-called perfect, not that he exists, but just let’s say that, you know, my match turned up at the front door, I would, at this point in my life, politely declined because I’d be like much as I’m sure you’d be lovely and it would be great.
00:28:14:15 – 00:28:36:14
Lucy Meggeson
And the desire and everything else, actually, it feels to me like, singling myself would be a much, much bigger sacrifice than being single tends to be seen to be, you know what I mean? Like most people think, oh, well, if you’re single, you’re like, you know, you’re sacrificing being in a relationship and having children all the rest of it.
00:28:36:14 – 00:28:40:12
Lucy Meggeson
But actually, I see it completely the other way around with that made sense.
00:28:40:12 – 00:28:56:10
Nancy Levin
But it makes perfect sense and it makes perfect sense to me. And I love when you use the term un singling because it’s so much more potent to look at that as something that we don’t want to move away from.
00:28:56:12 – 00:28:57:04
Lucy Meggeson
Exactly.
00:28:57:06 – 00:28:58:07
Nancy Levin
Versus.
00:28:58:07 – 00:28:58:29
Lucy Meggeson
Exactly.
00:28:59:01 – 00:29:27:11
Nancy Levin
Equating UN singling with coupling. And they’re not the same. It’s not the same thing because I’m in agreement with you. What I would have to give up to UN single is something that is non-negotiable for me. Yeah. To continue living with. I’m not willing to give up what I would have to give up, in order to un single.
00:29:27:11 – 00:29:47:22
Lucy Meggeson
Completely, and also, the other thing just to add to that is, even if you or I knew that any potential relationship was going to be a fabulous relationship, even under those circumstances of a fabulous relationship, I still don’t want to give up what I would have to give up in order to be in that relationship, even if it was the best relationship in the world.
00:29:47:24 – 00:30:05:23
Lucy Meggeson
Because I think when you grow to love being single so much, you just love being single and therefore it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter how bloody great the guy or the girl is, it’s like, well, sorry, I just actually prefer being single, you know? And I think, yeah, I suppose that is what it means to be truly single by choice.
00:30:06:00 – 00:30:10:03
Lucy Meggeson
Yes. Yeah. You just prefer it. Yeah. I mean, Bella Paolo talks about.
00:30:10:06 – 00:30:10:28
Nancy Levin
Yes.
00:30:10:28 – 00:30:26:29
Lucy Meggeson
You know, being single by choice and she, you know, Bella, she’s amazing. I love her so much. And she’s been single her whole life. And yes. And she speaks to this so brilliantly. Just the fact that her best life and for those of us who I think I certainly am single at heart, and I’m pretty sure you are too.
00:30:27:00 – 00:30:35:07
Lucy Meggeson
Those of us who are single at heart, it’s just our best life. So it doesn’t matter if the perfect guy comes along, it’s kind of irrelevant, you know?
00:30:35:10 – 00:30:42:00
Nancy Levin
Yeah. Okay, I have to bring this in because you devoted a whole chapter to sex.
00:30:42:07 – 00:30:43:26
Lucy Meggeson
Oh, my God, I did, didn’t I?
00:30:44:00 – 00:31:01:12
Nancy Levin
You did. I found it interesting that you did. And I had seen something on your social media. There was a little clip from the audio that you shared, which I like. You speak to that, but it’s different than even where you go in the book, so I’d love for you to touch on that here. If you’re if you’re game.
00:31:01:15 – 00:31:25:11
Lucy Meggeson
Put it this way, talking about the fact that I haven’t had sex for years. It’s never something I thought I would feel actually totally comfortable with it and just couldn’t really give a shit. Right? Because the truth is, that’s as I said in the book, I was always very into sex. I was always a very passionate person, and I had many boyfriends and a lot of sex for a lot of my life.
00:31:25:14 – 00:31:45:27
Lucy Meggeson
And this is why it’s so kind of ironic that I don’t fucking miss it, I really don’t, it barely ever occurs to me. But as I talk about in the book, I read a book by the incredible Napoleon Hill called Outwitting the Devil. Read it a few years ago, one of the best books I have. Probably my favorite book ever, actually.
00:31:45:27 – 00:32:32:01
Lucy Meggeson
It’s just it is so brilliant. And I quote it in the book. And essentially what Napoleon Hill says is that sex energy is like the most powerful energy. And if you transmute that energy into creative pursuits, you can basically make frickin amazing things happen. What resonated with me is that when you’re not using your sex energy to have actual sex, you can actually throw that energy into, dare I say more interesting things and more fulfilling things and more awesome things than getting laid, because any and again, this is you know, this is coming from someone who always loved sex and enjoyed it and had a pretty good amount of it, I think.
00:32:32:01 – 00:32:50:07
Lucy Meggeson
Yeah. But despite that, I just love what Napoleon Hill says, because it made me feel validated. And also so much of our life and whether we are loving our life or not and what our life actually looks like, you know, in reality is to do with where we’re placing our focus.
00:32:50:10 – 00:32:51:09
Nancy Levin
Yeah.
00:32:51:11 – 00:33:21:08
Lucy Meggeson
If you are single and you are sitting around hating your single life and telling yourself about how awful is to be single and how much you’re missing sex, you’re going to miss sex, right? However, if you are focusing on something else that lights you up some wonderful project, whatever it may be, some passion project, whatever it is, if you’re throwing your energy and your focusing your attention into something else, you simply do not have room to be thinking about.
00:33:21:08 – 00:33:48:05
Lucy Meggeson
Oh my God, I’m single and all of this. Which is why I feel so incredibly passionate about this. I think where we’re placing our focus really is everything. And you know, if I was to sit around and watch sex scenes all day, maybe I feel like I was really missing sex and I really wanted it, but I don’t because I’m thinking about way more interesting things and doing way more interesting things with my life.
00:33:48:05 – 00:34:05:08
Lucy Meggeson
And so, you know, I think I kind of wanted to write this chapter, partly because I wanted to validate other single women, because I also think there is a bit of a stigma around women. You’re not having sex. I mean, let’s be honest, how many married couples of 20 years are like, you know, shagging on the daily? Probably not very many.
00:34:05:11 – 00:34:15:17
Lucy Meggeson
It’s not as if everyone in this world is having sex like, you know, bunny rabbits five times a day. But I kind of want other single women to know that. And not to say that every single women isn’t having sex. I’m right.
00:34:15:17 – 00:34:17:25
Nancy Levin
You know 20 for sure.
00:34:17:25 – 00:34:43:03
Lucy Meggeson
Yeah, but the ones that aren’t it is actually okay to not have sex. It doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you. And also it doesn’t mean you’re necessarily missing out, because apart from anything else, you could actually be throwing those sexual energies into wonderful, wonderful pursuits that actually can probably give you more fulfillment and satisfaction than sex ever could.
00:34:43:05 – 00:35:02:14
Nancy Levin
I love you, it’s so true. Or what I actually find is if I do watch a sex scene or watch a, you know, rom com or whatever, I’m like, I’m fulfilled. Like that. Satisfied me. It’s great that you’re in my you’re in my computer or you’re in my TV and you’re not here in my bed. And I don’t have to deal with you.
00:35:02:20 – 00:35:08:15
Nancy Levin
But I feel very I feel very satisfied and fulfilled watching it unfold. Yeah. And you know what? Do you know what else.
00:35:08:15 – 00:35:16:01
Lucy Meggeson
Is really funny, actually, about the kind of no sex thing is that I am so grateful that I don’t have to deal with everything that comes with having sex.
00:35:16:01 – 00:35:16:22
Nancy Levin
And.
00:35:16:24 – 00:35:18:06
Lucy Meggeson
Having a guy in my bed.
00:35:18:06 – 00:35:19:17
Nancy Levin
It’s really.
00:35:19:19 – 00:35:35:01
Lucy Meggeson
Inconvenient. It’s on so many levels. It’s just it’s so fabulous to just not have that in your life. I had this fabulous, Cindy Gallop on the podcast a couple of months ago. She’s just so, so, so brilliant. I don’t know, with, you know, Cindy Gallop.
00:35:35:03 – 00:35:36:15
Nancy Levin
I don’t okay.
00:35:36:15 – 00:35:55:26
Lucy Meggeson
She’s fabulous. And she said not being in a relationship removes a massive layer of bullshit from your life. And actually the bullshit that can come along with sex and everything that that entails. It’s really quite nice just to not have to deal with that at all.
00:35:56:01 – 00:36:30:06
Nancy Levin
Oh, I must have missed that episode. So I will go back and look for it and listen, you said she’s right, I will. Okay, so I really want to talk about you shifting your podcast name away from Spinster Hood Reimagined to thrive solo. Really? You know, from Spinster hood to the self defined sovereignty. And why was it so important for you in the beginning to really sort of confront and embrace that word spinster hood and reimagine it.
00:36:30:09 – 00:36:48:09
Lucy Meggeson
You know, precisely because it has only negative connotations? That is why I wanted to use it. In fact, I remember I had a conversation with a very good friend of mine, Claire. We walk along the river in Richmond, and I told her that I was thinking about calling the podcast Spinster Imagined, and she was like, oh my God, I’m not sure about that word.
00:36:48:09 – 00:37:09:00
Lucy Meggeson
And I said to her, that’s exactly why I’m using it. I’m using it because it makes you go, oh, you know, that is provocative. Exactly. But speaking to why I decided to change the name after three years, and there is a part of me that feels like God. If I kind of betrayed myself and single women everywhere or spinsters everywhere.
00:37:09:02 – 00:37:41:12
Lucy Meggeson
But there were various reasons. Not least I think, that the word was putting off not only some listeners, but I think that some guests were just flat out saying no, or just not getting back to me because of that word. They just didn’t want to be associated with that word. And again, I mean, I know that’s exactly why I use the word, but actually when you’re trying to kind of run a business and you have a podcast that you’ve been doing for a long time, there comes a point where you think, actually, am I at this point cutting off my nose to spite my face, you know, in a way.
00:37:41:12 – 00:38:11:28
Lucy Meggeson
So that was one of the reasons, but also one of the main reasons, why I changed the name to Thrive Solo is because aside from being passionate about changing the narrative around being single and childfree, my true, true, true passion is personal growth and development and helping women understand that they get to live a really awesome life, and they get to quit the job that they hate.
00:38:11:28 – 00:38:45:29
Lucy Meggeson
That’s making them miserable and create a life on their own terms. I am so unbelievably passionate about this whole thing. This is what my second book is going to be about. I’m absolutely determined to write a book on this subject. And I thought that the term Thrive Solo spoke more to that side of me. And, you know, it just gives me, I think, more scope to talk about the personal growth stuff and the kind of spirituality and manifestation and all of those topics that I’m really, truly passionate about, as well as talking about being single and not having kids.
00:38:45:29 – 00:38:48:22
Lucy Meggeson
So those were two of my reasons. Yeah.
00:38:48:25 – 00:39:18:27
Nancy Levin
I appreciate that. And again, we’re so aligned. I mean, it is all about living on your own terms and something about this particular period of life, midlife. Wherever we find ourselves, reevaluating and choosing differently and realizing that we have a choice that we may not have known we had in the past. You know, part of me wishes I had never gotten married and I could always have been a spinster.
00:39:19:01 – 00:39:43:24
Nancy Levin
I know I have a friend who’s a lesbian, and it’s called a gold star lesbian if you’ve never slept with a man. And so there was a part of me that wanted to be like a gold star spinster. But the irony, of course, is that I would never in a million years be having this conversation with you, because this whole blossoming of the last 15 years of my career came out of my marriage and divorce, ironically.
00:39:43:26 – 00:40:08:24
Nancy Levin
So I will always be grateful from that perspective. I love the way that you’re presenting this, though, in terms of the shift from spinster hood reimagined to thrive solo because it is about the thrive piece, it gives equal emphasis to thriving and being solo. And so it’s perfect. And it is. It’s I love that this is the title of your book.
00:40:08:27 – 00:40:20:17
Nancy Levin
And again, the book is out now. Thrive solo in the US. In Canada, shiny happy singles in the UK. Exact same book with just a different title.
00:40:20:20 – 00:40:24:07
Lucy Meggeson
Yeah, if anything, that same book. So thank you for clarifying that.
00:40:24:10 – 00:40:25:07
Nancy Levin
Yes, because you’re just.
00:40:25:08 – 00:40:25:24
Lucy Meggeson
Using.
00:40:25:24 – 00:40:52:21
Nancy Levin
I know, Lucy, I honestly feel like I could talk to you for hours. I just love you, I appreciate you, I love the work you’re doing in the world. I feel this is so important that you are standing in your truth, in your power, with a megaphone and a microphone and, you know, just amplifying it for all women so that we can really trust ourselves to be able to thrive solo.
00:40:52:24 – 00:41:05:21
Lucy Meggeson
Nancy, thank you so, so, so much for having me. It’s been so fabulous to you. I could carry on talking to you for hours as well, but thank you, thank you, thank you so much. And, Yeah, just one more thing, please. I would love to.
00:41:05:21 – 00:41:06:22
Nancy Levin
Say please.
00:41:06:29 – 00:41:31:04
Lucy Meggeson
The listeners. And actually, this is more about thriving than being solo, but just one of the things I’m so passionate about sharing is that we just have so much more agency over our lives than we think we do, and we have to make the choice to get out of that victim mentality. Which boy oh boy have I sat in for many years of my life.
00:41:31:06 – 00:41:57:03
Lucy Meggeson
We have to get out of victimhood and realize that we get to have choice over what our lives look like and and also just finally, finally, finally, just to say to any of the single listeners out there, please know that it is more than possible to thrive solo. It is more than possible to be happily single. And I tell you what, when you get used to it, you might one day you might start wondering whether you actually ever want to give it up.
00:41:57:06 – 00:42:13:19
Nancy Levin
I mean, I love it, Lucy, thank you so much for being here. So. And yes, and for everyone listening. Go grab your copy of Thrive Solo or Shiny Happy Singles, depending on where you live. And, I’ll be back again with you next week.
00:42:13:22 – 00:42:15:02
Lucy Meggeson
Thanks so much. Lots of love.